If you don't like other people having structured fights, you can go inject a little bit of unstructuredness into their day by blowing up their dojo.


e: If structured fights have no place on TQ, do y'all folks also oppose the Alliance Tournament? New Eden Open?

Here are some basic modifications you can do to make this acceptable:

Fights take place at the deployable. There should be nothing to stop you from warping to it. You have to be in your pod to board a ship from the deployable and risk getting podded, discouraging the use of expensive implants. Boarding a fitted ship from the deployable makes you drop fleet, enforces the boundary violation rule and enters you into a limited engagement with the opponent. Leaving that ship or joining a fleet counts as a forfeit but otherwise has no consequences. If foul play occurs that mechanically counts as a win, it's up to the participants to argue over it.

Once matched up with another player in the dojo, youGÇÖre both whisked away directly from station to your ships, assembled from the items in the dojo, in a deadspace pocket placed randomly in space thatGÇÖs guarded from people warping to it - theyGÇÖll warp to the dojo deployable if they try.

To the slippery slope folks; This changes nothing the people that are primarily interested in this feature aren't in space for you to fight anyway.

You can't un-consensually PvP me in EVE when I'm playing League, because there's nothing left in EVE for me to log in for.

I have perfectly no idea what is your point.
Do you want a lifetime guarantee that you may gank/hotdrop anything anywhere ?
Seriously, I don't get it.

Especially, because with those Dojos you actually could get the fight anytime... instead of posting in a forum about how hard it is to get fights?!?!

Exuse me? How do you know hat I like? I've been playing EVE longer then any other MMO, I've ever played and I've been playing MMO's since Ultima Online.

EVE used to have content I enjoyed it still does. But it used to be you could log in and spend an hour in EVE and have few cool frigate fights in that time. Now when I log in I have to spend an extraordinate amount of time to get at any content I actually enjoy. Or I have to go through a massive amount of effort and multibox 3 accounts just to get a level playing field.
And I have a limited amount of leisure time, it's not that I don't enjoy the EVE content when I do mange to get it, it is that the amount of time/effort required to get is completely out of kilter with the amount of enjoyable content I can get out of other games in the same amount of time. EVE doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Also wow, some of you are freaking illiterates. Nowhere does it say it'll be implemented on TQ. Nowhere is it even mentioned as anything but a cool DUALITY toy that could possibly SIMPLIFY TOURNAMENTS and practices.

As in- it's largely an inhouse tool that Veritas (who is leaving CCP) is leaving to be expanded on so we maybe don't have the cringefest of bad and delays that were seen during the AT.

STFU and read the damn post with your brain turned on before you go spouting off this moronic whining about "killin muh peeveepees." It's not coming to your ******* pvp, it's not coming to your ******* TQ, shut up.

So long as it stays on the test server I don't mind. Keep it off tranq though, arenas always kill PvP outside of them in every game they are added to.

Please tell me how you can pvp my jita trade alt.

Also, please pvp my main who is currently logged out.

Then you can come back and talk to me about your made up CORE principles.

This thing is as Un-EVE as it gets and is utterly incompatible with EVE core gameplay. It will not add more players to the game and the same people who get bored with hunting for targets will get bored with arenas after the same length of time.

It's next to my option to bomb your nullsec assets and have access to your API to gank your bearalts.

You don't have to be edgy and backstabby to play eve, that's a common misconception.

This is a sandbox your way to play is not the way to play, CCP is fixing the problem of solo pvp being terrible, deal with it.

Neither is Singularity, and yet Eve seems to be okay despite this. How are dojos any different than logging onto Singularity and doing the same thing?

Eve stopped being a sandbox because of the AT?



I don't expect anything from it when I go roam for hours, same here but thanks for the logical fallacy and generalization (pro-tip : people have been soloing for years).

Also thanks for your opinion, funny how all the people complaining about this are not part of the target demographic.

ayyy lmao

For someone who doesn't PVP or care about it you sure are vocal about everyone conforming to your own vision of EvE (hey Baltec alt). Your eve is not my eve and it will never be. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game. There are countless eve players who don't enjoy jumping into a camp with triage carriers on standby. There are countless people who would love to run gambling rings and tournament chains. This is the perfect situation and tool that has bee requested to add a completely whole new level of organized player content. Just because you can't be a giant ******* and **** in someone's Cheerios you're getting all upset. How much more selfish can you be.

"Mommy, why are people in a sandbox game not doing the same thing as me" - you

HTFU

You realize that people having their own play style in the EvE sandbox is EvE' s core. It's their entire marketing strategy that you can be, do, act however you want in game. And guess what, if you want to be a ring leader you'd now have the chance....

Mind blown

This is very similar to an idea I posted about putting toys in the sandbox. As long as the players are running the arena and not an "NPC entity" this opens up options for interactions between the players.

I appreciate the concerns about killing off world PVP BUT this isn't Trammel and more 1 out of every 10 players in UO got beyond "leveling their Raven". EVE is a PVP game where a terrifyingly large portion of the player base already doesn't PEW. Anything that might get a few more people into popping ships is good.

Guys? Read the post.


Whoever is deploying this dojo has to shove ships and modules into it. Somebody has to buy or manufacture those ships and modules. The minerals and moon goo to make those ships and modules must come from player activity. All this is is a way for one player to subsidize another player's PvP.

Dojos on Duality might have stuff automatically spawned into them but only because it's Duality. CCP Veritas is not proposing that Dojos on Tranquility will have free stuff spawned into them by CCP. Additionally, Veritas explicitly states "Outside of the actual matches, there should be ways to screw with the dojo itself", implying that the dojo can be attacked. It's only the deadspace matches that cannot be interfered with.

Nobody is proposing bringing Simulator Mode to Tranquility; Simulator Mode is already provided by Singularity and Duality.

---

Now, the only concern I have is that if this is deployed to Tranquility, then this can be used as a method to leave a station that is currently camped. You can get your pod and implants out into space, bypassing the station camp, or get a force of pilots out into space and then warp to the station camp and optimals, rather than be forced to either use instant undock bookmarks (or in the case of bubbles, be forced to fight on the station undock spawn point).

Why can't we blob the AT teams then?

Why can't we attack people in stations?

Why can't we destroy nullsec assets in stations (that ccp will move for you after some months of inactivity)? Why can't we get access to APIs in game and check for alts since it's a way to metagame the pvp?

Is anyone else deeply disturbed that the EvE player base is so outraged because they can't interfere with an organized fight.

Storing gank ships inside them to use when people are camping the station. Placing a booster alt inside one. Its a deadspace so given enough time you can slowburn a rattle into it, have it cloak and then farm frigates. New players will enter them and get wiped out, turning them into effectively a farm for killmails.

Neutral Orca.


Adjust boosts mechanic to not apply outside this area.


Could you not do the same with FW sites? Alternatively could be blocked by a shield much like a starbase; hit the shield while dueling, you explode (boundary violation).


Point here is adjustments can be made to mitigate exploitation.

And that is a bad thing, because....?

Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?

This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.

My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong.

Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec.

If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can't I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?

Please provide source of this LAW

You whine a lot about new ideas proposed for Eve. If you don't like them, maybe Eve is not the game for you?

Using your flawed logic :

EVE is built around the concept of bad POS management, you can't have your "nice POS management" instances because then EVE effectively ceases being a bad POS management game.

If you want instanced arenas why don't you play one of the many many games that has them? Why force them into the one game that doesn't cater to them?

Philosophy 1: (With exceptions)

Philosophy 2: (Except for dead bumped Titans)

Philosophy 3: (With exceptions)

And my favorite: NO Instanced Arenas (Except for Alliance Tournament and New Eden Open)

And I can't seem to find where CCP states what their underlying LAWS and core philosophies are... Ill keep looking though.

Also, if you're so against these dojos and youre resting so much on this universal PvP motif, where is your thread demanding Universal Non-consensual PvP in noob systems, the thread about bomb launchers in high sec, of and the one about mobile bubbles outside of nullsec.

didn't read the whole thread but maybe if the dojo dropped the deadspace pockets (and let the people in them know it) as soon as they were reinforced, therefore letting people scan the participants down, then we'd have the right amount of sand in the sandbox?

I care a lot about what EVE is, but more importantly I care a lot more about giving people options to play this game that are fun for them because a sandbox is not only about being able to do anything you want anytime you want, but also about being able to pursue the options of HOW you want to do things and I feel like these dojos offer an alternative to HOW people pursue 1v1 combat, but they are still about to do so anytime, anywhere. It's hard to see how that is as big of a violation as you make it out to be.

Oh, and I forgive you.

I am sorry how easy it is to misconstrue a genuine belief that game developers in a unique game such as this would actually care enough about their players to do the work they do. How silly for me trust in them enough to give them the benefit of the doubt and the understanding that they come from good intentions when they test new material.

Please forgive me.

Except you're wrong, this is a sandbox people don't even have to shoot other people.

For example if people in nullsec stopped shooting each others it wouldn't make eve less of a sandbox, ironically it's the exact opposite.
CCP introduced consensual pvp with stuff like NEO and the AT, and players were already making videos of solo pvp recording their good fights.

Too bad you don't like it.

So, if those battles were in some ingame virtual reality you'd be happier?
Cause that wouldn't be in space.

But then we wouldn't have ships/modules blowing up, Dojos and their suppliers blown up, ...

If you don't like it you will not have to participate.

There no doubt is. there are plenty of players playing various call of duty titles, titanfall, battlefield, and others. There is an incredible demand for matchmade pvp games. so much in fact that theres a new one multiple times a year and rarely retains playable value after a year or two. I'd wager if CCP could compete in this rapid gratification/matchmade market DUST would actually be popular.

Why should those looking for a quick opportunity to get a decent fight get the satisfaction of one? Over those that could spend a bit of time to find one? Why should we reward those looking for less effort? Eve has always rewarded those putting in the extra work to get an edge.

Honestly this isn't just about the prototype feature, its about the mindset of catering to the casual players over hardcore players. This is where it gets personal and people get emotional and angry. The more dedicated have shown it by their years of subscriptions. And like incarna, this has the potential to attract more casual players and the expense of content for the others.

18k on TQ and 20k on arenas online is direct reduction of player related content in the live server.

So remove the dead space and automoving part, that should remove the instancing part, no?
Whats left is a potential tool to organize a tournament, where it's the player responsibility to stand for a non disrupted fight.
Maybe even add some crimewatch foo so that everyone or just some players get suspect when entering the arena.

That would bring the AT closer to TQ, while people still can disrupt the sh*t out of it if they dare to.

PS: What does " a sea change" mean?

EVE's "winning formula" has turned it into a game where nullsec is stagnant, people can and do roam 40j without finding anything (either because they're not allowed to shoot the half of EVE that's blue to them or because all they find are risk-averse pilots who dock/pos up) and where people log out and play other games as a way to pass the time.

Is that really okay? Are you really saying "EVE should be this game that people log out of to go play something else"?

Let's not forget how so-called 1v1 virtually requires you to have an offgrid boosting alt (because the other guy does) and how there's just so much PvP in highsec that isn't docking games or ganks.

So yeah. Dojos will totally kill EVE. Because EVE is in the best state it's ever been in. Is the sarcasm thick enough yet?

Oh and Jenn? You don't even PvP. At all. So get out of this thread. You have no place here.

One last thing: None of you crying change-averse bittervets seem to realize that this isn't on TQ. It hasn't been announced for TQ. It hasn't even been put on SiSi. It's on Duality and nobody has said the first thing about it going to any other server. So HTFU and STFU or GTFO. YOU are the cancer that is killing EVE.

I think you don't understand that the point of having dojos is to provide fair and controlled fights, fair and controlled fights existed in eve for a long time (the first AT was in 2005) just because CCP only used funny stories about betrayal, awox, theft and big 10% tidi battles to market eve till now doesn't mean it's not a valid part of the gameplay.

I mean, CCP is working hard to provide a good and professional AT stream, you don't like it fine it's a sandbox you can go do something else.

Look at the eve numbers after big battles : http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility now look what happens months after that..
We are literally back to 2008 tier of average people online, CCP listened to people like you for years I hope they are tired of listening to people with metagame agendas.

This is just your opinion, people like the AT/NEO and solo pvp, CCP is providing content for this part of the population and they obviously want to promote competitive eve gameplay.

It always existed, but for years we had no real platform to train and grow our community, CCP is fixing this.

This isn't relevant to you fine, but your way to play eve isn't the only way.

Oh I'm sorry, Jenn. I didn't realize you were an expert on what constitutes "fun" for everyone, nor was I aware that you were there when Hilmar & Friends created the concept of EVE and what it is or isn't based on.

A lot of people want to PvP - specifically they want to 1v1 - but don't bother to try because it's a sea of neutral logi and offgrid boosts and anything except actual 1v1.

A lot of people will say "then bring your own neutral logi and your own offgrid boosts" but that's a lame cop-out answer and doesn't make for 1v1. 1v1 shouldn't require multiboxing or friends. It's 1v1.

A prototype is not something shipping in the next release, it is just a test for concept.

Oh and as for 'boot from CSM' that mechanism exists. It is called an election. Next one is coming up in the New Year . . . remember to vote.

m

FFS, get that stick out of your ass. It's for a finite time that changes locations at all times. 5mins, maybe 10 tops, and you're getting your panties all in a bunch. Really, you feel it's necessary to ruin someone's 5-10mins of organized gameplay...selfish prick is what you are when you can't accept that some people would okie to play a different way

When the core principles of EVE are resulting in people logging off and playing other games, roaming for three hours and finding no fights or not even undocking because everyone else's ability to interfere completely kills your own ability to do what you want in the game in the first place, perhaps it's time to revisit those core principles.

I too agree that the ability to ruin another's day is the foundation upon which EVE was built, but there's a line between "what makes EVE great" and "what makes EVE frustrating and unfun". For those who are into 1v1, the omnipresence of neutral logi and offgrid boosts make EVE frustrating and unfun. Why should it take a fleet to accomplish what should only require two ships to achieve? Why is it so terrible that someone somewhere might actually be able to get the enjoyment they're paying CCP for?

People just want to have fun. The trolls and asshats get to run rampant over 95% of space, and that's fine. To say "**** you" to the 5% who want to set up something fun with their friends? No, that's not fine.

Jenn, please unsub. You're part of the change-averse cancer that is suffocating and killing EVE.

Who are you, that eschews PvP utterly and refuses to engage in it, to comment on the "spirit" and "purpose" of EVE Online?

Because God knows, when I'm cloaked up, I'm totally not 100% safe while I...

...watch your staging system movements to report intel...
...angle in behind you in the ice belt as a warp-in for a gank fleet...
...creep around nice and safe in the w-space system I scanned out 3 hours earlier to get into position for my buddies to warp in with their brawler Proteii and shred your triaged carrier in the anom you're clearing...


... and a host of other thing. Totally not safe at all.

Please, don't blame your poor reading comprehension on me.

As seen here : http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/375485-1 I'm almost always replying to the same people (that are very vocal against dojos).

And when people like this are posting :


I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are using alts to force their narrative, if you think I'm wrong please tell why, don't just spout your opinion about how I'm wrong because you said so.

CCP fixing clunky legacy stuff like the inability to have player made tournaments is a "benefit", but it's also a fix to the game, our gameplay was gimped for years remember that.

Please try to focus.

pvp in a 'protected' area - the new ultimate care-bears of Eve Online.

Sad really.